Want to add some metal cleats to the back of FF

twinster2 · 10-31-2016, 08:10 PM

I want to add some metal cleats to the back of my FF 189FBR but not sure where the metal frame or furring strips may be. Does anyone have any suggestions. The cleats are for holding a garbage bag but may eventually be used to help stabilize a bike rack. If I put them on the very edge, I can probably it the metal frame.

**LJAZ** · 11-01-2016, 07:53 AM

For sure there will be framing on the edge. You might try a stud finder if you want to put it in another spot. 2010 should have the aluminum frame.

profdant139 · 11-01-2016, 09:16 AM

The back wall of the trailer is not designed for much of a load -- is there a way to mount the garbage bag to the spare tire (if that is on the back)?

If you want a bike rack in back (and that is something I have long wished for), you would probably be better off welding a hitch receiver to the steel frame members of the chassis. Unfortunately, on my X-139, there is no rear bumper and no good access to the chassis in back, because the black water tank hangs down a little and blocks access to the frame.

jbfunfinder · 11-01-2016, 11:04 AM

If you only want to secure something that is relatively light like a trash bag holder, you might consider drilling all the way through and use a threaded screw and T-nut (See Home Depot link: Search Results forÂ*t nutÂ*at The Home Depot). This is how the spare tires are attached to FF back walls. Obviously this would be done with caulking. I would strongly discourage using such an anchor arrangement like this to secure a bike rack, however. A spare tire is stable and lies flat against the wall with minimal shear and torque forces. Bike racks on the other hand are hard on even bolted or welded arrangements due to the constant bouncing torque while traveling. Good luck!

John_C · 11-03-2016, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinster2

I want to add some metal cleats to the back of my FF 189FBR but not sure where the metal frame or furring strips may be. Does anyone have any suggestions. The cleats are for holding a garbage bag but may eventually be used to help stabilize a bike rack. If I put them on the very edge, I can probably it the metal frame.

Hi twinster2,
I use an old plastic garbage pail to to retain the plastic bag and a bungee to secure the pail to the outside of the trailer or place a couple of rocks or bricks in the bottom of pail before adding the bag, both of these work well for me...

Many trailer/RV supply houses, Camping World, Wally, etc. often carry a collapsible garbage bag container... But, I just use a med rectangular kitchen container, with a lid... AND always empty any outside garbage container before bed.
Please forgive me if all that sounds like a Smart-A$$ remark, it wasn't meant that way...

As far as the bracket/assembly to support a bike, I agree with profdant139, "... you would probably be better off welding a hitch receiver to the steel frame members of the chassis..." If you go this route, bolting may be easier and reduces frame cracking, either way, ensure adequate bracing to reduce vibration and movement will help prevent HAZ (Heat Affected Zone) cracking and breakage of weldments...

Good luck and let us know what you end up doing...

profdant139 · 11-03-2016, 11:36 AM

John, that's interesting (and encouraging) that bolting works better than welding. (I don't know how to weld.) Isn't there a danger, though, that if we drill holes in the frame to attach a bike rack, that might weaken the frame?

John_C · 11-03-2016, 11:57 AM

Hey Twinster2,
You may be able to find/make/or have made something like the attached... I have re-purposed receivers like this and modified them to fit the new vehicle... You may be able do the same using a light duty 1-1/4" receiver... Then don't forget bracing to the upper framework the supports the bike...

John_C · 11-03-2016, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by profdant139

John, that's interesting (and encouraging) that bolting works better than welding. (I don't know how to weld.) Isn't there a danger, though, that if we drill holes in the frame to attach a bike rack, that might weaken the frame?

Take a look at the attached 2" receiver by Reese in my previous post, this is bolted to the frame and generally attached with a minimum of grade 5 and better yet grade 8 bolts... but we are talking thousands of pounds of weight... For the bike rack, we are not talking of more than a hundred or a hundred and fifty pounds of bike, rack, and receiver... If you know someone the welds, maybe the frame pieces could be built diamond shaped, if you will, to bring the receiver tube closer to the rear of the trailer (I personally would bolt using a minimum of 4, grade 5, 1/2" bolts, flat washer to frame, lock washer, and nuts/lock nuts per side... Lock nuts would not need lock washers, but plain nuts would) ... Take some cardboard and cut out a template and see if it will even fit...

Good luck...

Note: The longer the frame connection, the greater the weight distribution at the frame... Just suggestions, mind you...

profdant139 · 11-03-2016, 01:10 PM

I like this idea! I am sure I could fabricate something like it with perforated square steel tubing, the kind they use to support street signs. Very sturdy stuff.

So now the other question is this -- how to keep the bike rack from vibrating? With all of that leverage from the weight of the bikes, there is bound to be harmonic oscillation. When I put a rack on the back of my truck, there are straps to dampen the vibration. How would I accomplish the same thing on the back of the trailer, since the back wall of the trailer is not built to handle much of a load?

(And I promise that I am not hijacking Twinster's thread here -- this is directly relevant to his question about stabilizing the bike rack.)

twinster2 · 11-03-2016, 07:59 PM

That was the reason for the cleats, to secure the bike from vibrating. I was planning on using a bungee straps from the cleats to each bike wheel.

twinster2 · 11-03-2016, 08:05 PM

That was the reason for the cleats, to secure the bike from vibrating. I was planning on using a bungee straps from the cleats to each bike wheel.

profdant139 · 11-03-2016, 08:13 PM

Unfortunately, I have found that bungees often don't damp the vibration -- they can accentuate it. I prefer nylon straps -- they don't stretch.

John_C · 11-04-2016, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by profdant139

I like this idea! I am sure I could fabricate something like it with perforated square steel tubing, the kind they use to support street signs. Very sturdy stuff.

So now the other question is this -- how to keep the bike rack from vibrating? With all of that leverage from the weight of the bikes, there is bound to be harmonic oscillation. When I put a rack on the back of my truck, there are straps to dampen the vibration. How would I accomplish the same thing on the back of the trailer, since the back wall of the trailer is not built to handle much of a load?

(And I promise that I am not hijacking Twinster's thread here -- this is directly relevant to his question about stabilizing the bike rack.)

If I was building the rack to fit my FF... I would probably try to make the hitch extend rearward to just clear the rear of the rear of the trailer and add a cleat to each end extending an inch or two with a hole for a 3/8" - 1/2" bolt. Then add metal bracing at about 1"x 1/8" to 3/16" to each of these cleats, extending at an inward and rearward angle up to the bike rack... these should be bolted for easy removal if the bike rack needs to be removed. The bike rack should extend at least a foot or so back allowing sufficient angle in these two braces to greatly reduce vibration and rack movement...
I'd probably start with something like below... 2" x 2" Unistrut may be strong enough, but I would likely lean to the overbuild and go with angle... I'd hate the thing to dump my bike in front of a car causing an accident

... I also have a welder and weld; so, I would weld all hitch and rack junctures, then bolt the hitch under the frame. I would bolt the two rack braces to the hitch frame and rack, then, bolt the rack to the hitch in lieu of pinning, to reduce movement...

Whoops ... I forgot t add gussets to the hitch tube in the center of the hitch and edited the pic below, there should be a gusset plate under and over the tube to hitch frame to reduce twisting at the tube to hitch frame welds... Remember, this a light duty hitch and I accept no responsibility for these ideas...

Anyway, just my $0.02 worth...

profdant139 · 11-04-2016, 04:18 PM

John, the angle braces are brilliant!

What's a gusset?

John_C · 11-05-2016, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by profdant139

John, the angle braces are brilliant!
What's a gusset?

Thank you, I am not crazy about bolting much to these walls... there is just not much there, in my opinion anyway...

A gusset is an angular (usually triangular in shape) piece welded to the inside of two members or overlays one or both sides of two tube members to reduce movement... I shaded the gussets below...

If you are making this or having a shop/buddy weld it up, it would be real easy to add several 5/16" links from a chain to give you tie-downs for rope/bungees to hold the bike in one position on the rack... They would be good to add a bike cable & lock also...

Just a thought... I found a steel fabrication shop not far from here and often buy steel pieces (AT SCRAP STEEL COST) for my projects. While in AZ, I found a similar, but smaller shop and had them do a couple quick jobs for me... these places are often less expensive than having a large shop do welding and fab for you...

profdant139 · 11-05-2016, 10:38 PM

Thanks a lot!! I am going to pursue this project, right after our next trip (which is hopefully next week).

twinster2 · 11-06-2016, 03:41 PM

John-

Thanks for your suggestions. Unfortunately, I do not think it will work with my 2010 FF FBR. Below are a couple of photos I took of the rear frame. As can be seen, any angle iron attached to the bottom of the frame will interfere with the stabilizer jacks. Also, a thin metal plate is wielded to the end of the frame, so running plates along the side of the frame is also prevented. Interestingly, there is a slot on the inside of the frame and a steel V wielded to the bottom of the frame.

profdant139 · 11-06-2016, 04:38 PM

Twinster, that V is to protect the back end in case you drag it on a steep driveway. If you are having clearance problems, you could install a lift kit -- either flip the axles or raise the torsion bar (if you have a torsion suspension).

But I also have obstacles to installing a bike rack in the manner suggested by John -- the stabilizers get in the way, as do the gray and black tanks themselves. But there may be a way around it -- if I were to add a spacer to the cross members of the frames, I could gain some clearance for John's clever bike rack design. It would cost me some ground clearance, but it might be worthwhile.

twinster2 · 11-06-2016, 05:26 PM

Yea, I thought that is probably what the V was for. I am curious how Cruser installed their optional bike rake, Does anyone on here have the Cruser custom bike rack?

John_C · 11-06-2016, 07:13 PM

Hi Guys,
I can see what you are up against... I believe you could make a rack to fit the rear, but not sure if the effort is worth the gain...

What does your tongue area look like

I have added a photo of the tongue of my FF as first received? I have since added a white PVC Propane Bottle Cover and changed the single grp. 24 battery and box to two grp. 31 batteries and boxes. My FF also came with an angle iron cage with expanded metal floor bolted to the tongue. The tire carrier is mounted under the tongue and I bolted the battery boxes to the expanded metal cage floor.

There is an angle all around the perimeter of the cage approx. a 2" to 3" high (I can measure tomorrow and take better pictures if you want) that would make installing a rack a piece of cake...

It is difficult to see in your pics, but I guess the big questions are... is the tongue long enough to allow room to mount a rack; would that work for you; and would you want to carry the bikes up front