Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-11-2011, 11:30 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orangevale, CA
Posts: 64
Default Towing up to 2700 lbs. dry with Honda Pilot

I currently have a FF X-139, dry weight between 2000 and 2200 lbs., depending on which website you believe. I have a 2006 Honda Pilot, tow capacity with 3 occupants is 3500 lbs. The towing is comfortable. Of course, I'm towing, so I drive conservatively, but unless I'm climbing, it's easy towing.

My wife and I are thinking of buying a larger trailer, dry weight up to 2700 lbs. It's still below the 3500 threshold, and we don't have much gear. maybe 200 lbs. tops, including food and firewood. Would I notice a huge increase in difficulty in towing with possibly up to 500-700 lbs. extra? I'm already towing. Would an increase from 2000...2200 - 2700 pounds be that noticeable with 3500 lbs. towing capacity? Total weight would be under 3000. I hate to have a situation where I feel uncomfortable towing an overweight trailer. How would that extra weight be climbing? Much different than now, where I must shift into 3rd anyway?

And what about a sway bar? One dealer said I needed one. I don't use one with the X-139. Is it necessary, or is he trying to sell a sway bar?

Also, is towing an 18-foot trailer much different than towing a 14-foot trailer, in terms of driving, backing in, changing lanes, etc...? Does that extra 4 feet make a noticeable difference?

Or is this all a psychological change? All in my head, and I would get used to it in the first few miles?
__________________

__________________
2006 FF X-139
2006 Honda Pilot 4WD
paulitzlee2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 09:52 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest Arizona
Posts: 624
Default

To start off... Your Honda Pilot's tow rating is not done with 3 people aboard. Tow ratings are "spec'd" for the vehicle with no options, half a tank of gas and 1 driver of 150 lbs. Industry standard. Your cargo capacity is ~1300 lbs.

A "dry weight" TT of 2700 lbs, is much more likely to be closer to 3100 to 3400 lbs when driven off the lot...again, the "industry standard" for dry weight is the bare bones minimum the TT would weigh off the assembly line floor and does not include things like the battery, LPG and options (the "options" include the "mandatory" ones and things like the awning and microwave, etc.).

I believe your tongue weight max is also right around 350 lbs... if your TT comes in at 3400 lbs, you'll have a tongue weight in the neighborhood of 400 - 500 lbs. That alone exceeds your hitch capacity. That 4-500 lbs also has to be considered "payload" for your Pilot (actually about 80% of it with a WD hitch, if your hitch is rated for WD type system, if your Pilot is Unibody construction it may not be able to support a WD hitch) and would have to come off your "payload". That would leave approximately 800 to 900 lbs of payload to cover all of your passengers weights (excluding the 150 lbs for the driver) and any options and gear carried in the Pilot.

You will most likely be right at most all of your mechanical limits and slightly over on some, even with the TT empty. Another factor to consider...if your Pilot is Unibody (no separate frame), in an emergency situation, the torsional effects of the TTs weight, being at or over your limits, will have a detrimental effect on the handling of your Pilot through changes in the steering geometry (under-steer to over-steer and back oscillations with associated wheel hop).

Can you do it? Yes, as a lot of Pilot owner's will chime in and say they tow their XYZ trailer with those specs all over the country and find the Continental Divide an exhilarating drive

Would I do it? No... I'm not one to say that in order to tow anything but a pop-up you need a 1 ton diesel dually, but, on the other hand, I believe that your TV should have an "adequate" safety margin to handle emergencies and "severe stress" situations (grades >6%, both up and down and sharp, unexpected turns along with wind gusts) and I don't believe your Pilot will have any "safety margins" or excess capacity with an 18' TT carrying any kind of cargo.



__________________

__________________
My 2 cents, your mileage may vary...

Don
Bronwyn
2 Cats; J-Lo and Ragamuffin :R

2014 Thor Tuscany 40RX DP
2011 Ram 2500 Longhorn CTD HO
2011 Keystone Cougar 318SAB (now gone)
2008 FunFinder X 210WBS (Sadly gone)
webslave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 12:07 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orangevale, CA
Posts: 64
Default

On the door, the TT say 2680. I think they weigh the actual trailer before sending to the dealer. Is that true?

Now we tow a FF X-139 with no issues. It feels comfortable when driving, braking, etc... I do need to shift into 3rd to climb the Sierras, but other than that, it seems like the typical towing. Don't drive fast, plenty of time to brake, etc...

When you say you would only tow a popup, do you mean a popup with a similar weight to the FF X-139, since that is a very light trailer? Because we're towing that one fine. But popups weigh over 2000 lbs., I believe.
__________________
2006 FF X-139
2006 Honda Pilot 4WD
paulitzlee2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 12:17 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orangevale, CA
Posts: 64
Default

In the Honda Pilot manual, it has a chart with number of occupants and tow capacity. For up to 3, it's 3500 lbs. TT, 4500 lbs. boat trailer.

Is this just some simple chart they made up to oversimplify it? I've seen other forums also say the 3500 lbs. is for one 150 lb. driver, no passengers.
__________________
2006 FF X-139
2006 Honda Pilot 4WD
paulitzlee2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 02:19 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest Arizona
Posts: 624
Default

Read me wrong...didn't mean to infer to you should only be towing a pop-up. A lot of guys out there think that if you are towing more than a pop-up that you need to get a 1-ton dually (exageration) I'm not one of those guys, but, given the engineering of your Pilot, you are probably pretty close to the safe maximum tow, IMHO, with what you are towing now.

It is just that with your Pilot you'll need to be more careful of what you tow than somebody with a full size SUV or 1/2 ton pickup truck. Your Pilot was never engineered as an RV tow vehicle and as you start to creep up on the "maximums", you're actually going to be getting into the "dangerous" zone rather quickly - there is no "cushion" built into the Pilot. The transmission isn't designed for heavy duty towing, the type of construction (I believe it is unitbody, not body on frame) is not designed for weight carrying and distribution and the engine, though quite adequate for routine driving and light-duty towing, is not designed for long term "max" towing.

As for what your manual describes, "for up to 3, it's 3500 lbs", that is a simplification. What it is saying is that 3 people, and they are probably calculating 150 lbs. per person, is a 450 lb load and the tongue weight of a 3500 lb trailer load for them max's out at 350 lbs... Basically, they are telling you that your "load maximum" is around 800 lbs. when towing. The actual load rating for your pilot is 1300 lbs, but, Honda is saying you'll need to stay under that by 500 lbs when towing a regular trailer because of the frontal area wind resistance of a travel trailer's front end acting as a "sail" (in effect it increases the tow load above and beyond the mere weight of the trailer) and the minimal towing engineering in the Pilot's design. That sail area is why you can tow more boat weight than travel trailer weight - the boat and its trailer have much less wind resistance (frontal area) than a full size travel trailer.

The weight sticker by the door is, indeed, usually the "manufactured" weight of the TT as it rolls off the assembly line. Bear in mind that the TT isn't "manufactured" with the battery, LPG, extras like an optional microwave oven, (sometimes even the awning is added "post manufacturing"), along with the spare tire, extra stabilizers, etc, etc. Anything the dealer adds (some of the above, for instance) and including the sewer hoses, freshwater fittings, etc. get added to that 2680 lbs. It could easily actually weigh 2900 to 3100 lbs empty, without much effort at all. The only to reliable way to see what the true "empty weight" of a TT would be is to, as you pick it up at the dealer, go to a scale and have it weighed. Add a couple hundred pounds of "living materials" for a trip; food, clothing, personal effects, etc. and you'll be at or over your max before you know it.

Towing is much more than just looking at numbers and taking them for face value. The vehicle manufacturers typically "over-rate" their vehicles because in the "selling game" a stretched tow capacity number is a higher selling point and the converse is true with RV manufacturers; the lower RV weight claims mean they can sell you a bigger, higher optioned, heavier RV than you would normally consider if the "as it sits on the lot" weight were known.



__________________
My 2 cents, your mileage may vary...

Don
Bronwyn
2 Cats; J-Lo and Ragamuffin :R

2014 Thor Tuscany 40RX DP
2011 Ram 2500 Longhorn CTD HO
2011 Keystone Cougar 318SAB (now gone)
2008 FunFinder X 210WBS (Sadly gone)
webslave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 01:18 PM   #6
TCP
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 99
Default misinformation

This type of misinformation just makes me laugh. "All tow ratings are done with a single occupant and no fuel". Truck manufacturers do that to try to get as high tow ratings as possible, others vary.

How exactly do I get a tow rating of 3500lbs in my sienna, UVW of 4300lbs and a GCWR of 8700lbs? My math says I have 900lbs of capacity in my van for "people and stuff", even at maximum "rated" tow.

Also did a lovely 300mile trip this weekend with the van loaded up and the trailer full of water, supplies, propane, etc...

My axle weights were:

Front 1190kg actual. gross 1290kg = 100kg remaining(220lbs).
Rear 1220kg actual. gross 1290kg = 70kg remaining (154lbs).
Trailer axles together 1520kg actual. gross axle 2500kg = 980kg remaining(2156lbs).

8646lbs total weight. Runs like a dream and very stable.

That's with a 2010 198FDS.
TCP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 01:22 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5
Default

I always thought the Pilot had more towing capacity than 3500lbs but after looking online, I guess not. My family's Kia Sorento has the same towing capacity and the only thing I would tow with it is a jet skis or a small jon boat. I would get a SUV with around 5,000lbs towing capacity or more or towing larger trailers. There are mid-size SUVs with good towing capacity like the Chevy Trailblazer (6300lbs) and Toyota 4Runner (5000lbs) and Jeep Grand Cherokee (5000lbs) that would work.
__________________
Jennings - Wish I was travelin'.
Jennings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 06:10 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest Arizona
Posts: 624
Default Re: misinformation

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCP
This type of misinformation just makes me laugh. "All tow ratings are done with a single occupant and no fuel". Truck manufacturers do that to try to get as high tow ratings as possible, others vary.

How exactly do I get a tow rating of 3500lbs in my sienna, UVW of 4300lbs and a GCWR of 8700lbs? My math says I have 900lbs of capacity in my van for "people and stuff", even at maximum "rated" tow.

Also did a lovely 300mile trip this weekend with the van loaded up and the trailer full of water, supplies, propane, etc...

My axle weights were:

Front 1190kg actual. gross 1290kg = 100kg remaining(220lbs).
Rear 1220kg actual. gross 1290kg = 70kg remaining (154lbs).
Trailer axles together 1520kg actual. gross axle 2500kg = 980kg remaining(2156lbs).

8646lbs total weight. Runs like a dream and very stable.

That's with a 2010 198FDS.
Sorry, I don't quite get your point...

There is a big problem with how the companies calculate their towing capacity... They are "calculated" and they are for the most part done with a single occupant, stripped vehicle and a half tank of gas. The SAE has stepped in with new testing procedures to be implemented by 2013. Toyota, so far, is the only manufacturer that has begun using the J2807 Standard (for their 2011 trucks), but, the others will follow suit by or before 2013.

"One major change from past practice is what the SAE committee defines as Tow Vehicle Trailering Weight (TVTW). Unlike the past, a driver, a passenger, optional equipment purchased by at least one third of the customer base, and hitch equipment are now included in this calculation along with the base weight of the tow vehicle. Raising the TVTW figure automatically lowers the maximum permissible GCWR and TWR figures."

As from the quote above, the new tow ratings must reflect a more real world vehicle and passenger loading (not the 150 lb driver, stripped model and a half tank of gas used by most companies in past testing) in order to get everyone on a level playing field.

As for your figures, I'm still confused...at no time did you exceed any of your vehicle's limitations...point? You are right at the max capacity (but still under) in several areas, but, haven't exceeded any of them. I would expect just what you said you got; a safe stable tow.





__________________

__________________
My 2 cents, your mileage may vary...

Don
Bronwyn
2 Cats; J-Lo and Ragamuffin :R

2014 Thor Tuscany 40RX DP
2011 Ram 2500 Longhorn CTD HO
2011 Keystone Cougar 318SAB (now gone)
2008 FunFinder X 210WBS (Sadly gone)
webslave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Fun Finder RV, Cruiser RV, or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×