What does Dry Weight include? --FunFinderX 189FBS--

[BigAk]

Hey Guys,

So... It says the dry for the FF X189FBS = 3,108lb. What does that include?? As I read around on this forum, I am finding guys saying this does not include the awning, battery, LP gas tanks, microwave etc... How about the AC unit?? and the mattress?? and the stove?? I am currently pulling my FF with a Honda Pilot 4WD which has a two capacity of 4,500lb, and I'm getting concerned that with the above information I'm getting way too close to my max capacity. If anyone can shed a light on this issue, I'd appreciate it.

BTW, my pilot seems to pull the FF with no apparent issues. I don't load my FF while towing. My fridge is empty so are my water tanks.... no kitchen stuff on board either. My gas mileage suffers considerably but I guess that's expected.
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[webslave]

Manufacturers don't weigh each unit as it goes out the door. Would be nice if they did a "weigh out" as the unit is leaving for the dealer, but, that is added manpower and expense that they would have to tack on to the price...not likely to happen. A trailer's "dry weight" includes just the equipment necessary for it to be "self contained".

That "dry weight" doesn't include the list of "options" that your trailer has; even the "mandatory" ones.

For the 189FBS that list is garnered from their website:

"X-Fun Pack (A/C, electric awning, Spare Tire, 6 Gal. DSI gas/elec. water heater, microwave, outside shower, outside BBQ, LCD TV"

You can take the water heater out of that mix as the trailer would come with a water regardless (it isn't really an "option" per se), the "option" in this case is the addition of the DSI capability to a standard water heater, not a big weight changer.

You've also got to add to that, the weight of the propane and the weight of the battery along with the weight of whatever WD hitch system you are using along with, of course, any other "add ons" that you've got, i.e., sewer hose and attachments, freshwater hoses, filters, etc. I usually allow between 400 to 600 lbs depending on hitch type and how many batteries, size of propane tanks, etc. For a smaller TT like the 189FBS, I'd add ~480 lbs. to their "dry weight" advertised weight. Without weighing your unit, a WAG, by me, would put you in the ~3600 lb range with a corresponding estimated tongue weight of around 435-480 lbs.

As for the "max" and whether you tow loaded or not, you've got to bear in mind the total load weight of your vehicle. Whether the weight is in the trailer or stuffed in the back of your Pilot, the total load rating shouldn't be exceeded. You have a short wheel base and probably a unibody construction, so, you aren't going to have a lot GVW (you can get your GVW off the door pillar on the Pilot) to work with regardless of where the weight is sitting, i.e., the back of the Pilot or the 189FBS. In fact, if you are stuffing the Pilot to the gills, you may actually be better off moving some of the "stuff" to the 189FBS...let the trailer's axles carry some of the load and lighten up on the amount of weight and stress the unibody structure of the Pilot has to bear, you've got some "wiggle room" with the total tow weight allowed.

Your gas mileage is going to be poor...the Pilot is a marginal tow vehicle...any towing it was designed for would be aimed at utility trailers, jet ski trailers, pop-ups, etc.; not a hard bodied travel trailer. You've added an 8'x10' foot wall to the back of your vehicle and it takes a lot of "umph" to overcome that air resistance. Sail area is a bigger factor in mpg than weight. When I went from my 210WBS (21-24' depending on whether I had the bikes on the back or not) and ~5800 lbs to my 35-38' Cougar 5th wheel at ~11,000 lbs, my mileage "only" dropped 1.5 mpg and that is attributable to the fact it is 8" wider and at almost 13' tall, 3' taller in frontal area...not the doubling in weight. I don't know how fast you tow at; your tires (189FBS) are only rated to 65 mph, but, slowing down to 58-62 mph will usually get you the best mileage and is easier on the tow vehicle's equipment. Though my Hemi Commander and my 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel can certainly tow faster, you will always find me in the slow lane doing around 60 mph...sometimes a little less (uphill) or a little more (downhill), but, in that 58-62 mph zone.

Hope the above helps... There is no "hard and fast" way to calculate weights, only with weighing can you be certain, but, the above is garnered from experience over the years by a lot of people (not just me). A bigger trailer has more "wiggle room"...longer gets you more "options" for how you load and balance to keep your tongue weight in line. A bigger tow vehicle gets you more wiggle room in that it has the horse power / torque and a body on a frame with a longer wheelbase for better weight distribution and load capacity. If you do some good, basic "guesstimations" and allow a little wiggle room (I usually allow around 10% of any weight "guesstimate" either + or -) you should be "close enough for government work"

[BigAk]

Webslave,

I want to thank you for the informative post. I appreciate the time you put into writing the details.

Originally Posted by webslave

A trailer's "dry weight" includes just the equipment necessary for it to be "self contained".

That "dry weight" doesn't include the list of "options" that your trailer has; even the "mandatory" ones.

For the 189FBS that list is garnered from their website:

"X-Fun Pack (A/C, electric awning, Spare Tire, 6 Gal. DSI gas/elec. water heater, microwave, outside shower, outside BBQ, LCD TV"

Wow... I didn't realize that my dry weight of 3,108 did not include all those options. That was very misleading. The dealer should have made these facts known to me before I decided to buy the FF. But, I guess he was more interested in making the sale than my best interest and safety.

Originally Posted by webslave

You've also got to add to that, the weight of the propane and the weight of the battery along with the weight of whatever WD hitch system you are using along with, of course, any other "add ons" that you've got, i.e., sewer hose and attachments, freshwater hoses, filters, etc.

Hmm.. Would it be a good idea if I disconnect the two propane tanks and store them in my garage instead of carrying them on my trips??. I usually camp out with my 8 year old son. We go on very short trips (2-3days max) and we never really have a need for hot water since we can shower at the public camping grounds if needed. Also, we always eat out on these trips anyway, so there's no need to cook. Plus I always use my small light weight electric heater anyway. I bet if I eliminate the propane tanks, that would make a huge impact on the weight of my TT. What are your thoughts on this?

Same goes for that heavy mattress I have in my TT. I can take it out and use an air mattress instead.

How about doing away with the battery also??

Originally Posted by webslave

I usually allow between 400 to 600 lbs depending on hitch type and how many batteries, size of propane tanks, etc. For a smaller TT like the 189FBS, I'd add ~480 lbs. to their "dry weight" advertised weight. Without weighing your unit, a WAG, by me, would put you in the ~3600 lb range with a corresponding estimated tongue weight of around 435-480 lbs.

I am planning on weighing my TT at a public scale soon just to know where I'm at.. But, according to your estimate, it seems like I'm still well below 4,500lb. I only travel with my boy who's about 75 pounds.. That 4,500lb is measured considering a driver and one passenger according to the pilot manual.

Originally Posted by webslave

Your gas mileage is going to be poor...the Pilot is a marginal tow vehicle...any towing it was designed for would be aimed at utility trailers, jet ski trailers, pop-ups, etc.; not a hard bodied travel trailer. You've added an 8'x10' foot wall to the back of your vehicle and it takes a lot of "umph" to overcome that air resistance. Sail area is a bigger factor in mpg than weight. When I went from my 210WBS (21-24' depending on whether I had the bikes on the back or not) and ~5800 lbs to my 35-38' Cougar 5th wheel at ~11,000 lbs, my mileage "only" dropped 1.5 mpg and that is attributable to the fact it is 8" wider and at almost 13' tall, 3' taller in frontal area...not the doubling in weight. I don't know how fast you tow at; your tires (189FBS) are only rated to 65 mph, but, slowing down to 58-62 mph will usually get you the best mileage and is easier on the tow vehicle's equipment. Though my Hemi Commander and my 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel can certainly tow faster, you will always find me in the slow lane doing around 60 mph...sometimes a little less (uphill) or a little more (downhill), but, in that 58-62 mph zone.

Yea... My future plan is to invest in a 4X4 pickup truck; a 1500 Ram or something similar and then I wouldn't have to worry about pulling my FF.

Originally Posted by webslave

Hope the above helps... There is no "hard and fast" way to calculate weights, only with weighing can you be certain, but, the above is garnered from experience over the years by a lot of people (not just me). A bigger trailer has more "wiggle room"...longer gets you more "options" for how you load and balance to keep your tongue weight in line. A bigger tow vehicle gets you more wiggle room in that it has the horse power / torque and a body on a frame with a longer wheelbase for better weight distribution and load capacity. If you do some good, basic "guesstimations" and allow a little wiggle room (I usually allow around 10% of any weight "guesstimate" either + or -) you should be "close enough for government work"

LOL

Again; I appreciate all your help and valuable information.

.

[webslave]

I wouldn't forgo the propane tanks... At best you would save maybe 76 lbs...that would help, but, it would really lighten up your tongue weight (by that same amount). Don't do it. Tongue weight is required to keep your trailer from swaying (even with anti-sway devices attached). An unloaded trailer tongue is inherently unsafe... Ever noticed the fishtailing on an unloaded utility trailer with the tongue high? You'll get the same effect on your 189FBS if you lighten the tongue weight. It should be between 11 and 14% of your gross trailer weight with 12-13% being the "sweet spot" for most. That is one of the advantages to 5th wheels and why most will say "they tow better". Most of the "towing better" is the huge pin weight (mine is right around 1750 lbs ) and the fact that the huge pin weight is centered over the axle (there's a little more to it geometrically, but, it isn't pertinent to you). If you hang more weight off the back side of the trailer's axles, that back end weight becomes the controlling force on trailer motion. That's why you will find most travel trailers with the fresh water tank over the axles, or, toward the front of the trailer and not behind the axles. You want to keep the weight between the Pilot's rear axle and the trailer's axles so that the rig (Pilot and 189FBS in your case) is carrying a + amount of weight between the rear axle of your Pilot and the front axle of your trailer. When someone says "I've got a tongue weight of 500 lbs", what he is really saying is that his trailer is nose heavy (a good thing to a certain point) by that 500 lbs. For much the same reason that you want to always tow with the tongue level or down an inch or even two as opposed to up, you need that tongue weight for stability, traction and safe braking. So leave the propane bottles and enjoy the hot water.

As for the mattress? Leave it, too. You'll only shave 25-35 lbs by taking it out, and again, it will alter the balance of the trailer.

Definitely do not take your battery off the trailer!!!! That battery is required to operate the trailer's brakes should the trailer ever become disconnected from your tow vehicle. That break-away cable that you hook to your vehicle, along with the safety chains, is connected to a pull-pin that, when pulled, applies full braking force to the electric brakes on your trailer so that it doesn't go careening all over the road. Most states require any trailer with a gross weight over 3000 lbs to have break-away brakes and the battery to operate those brakes

You have plenty of "slack" with your setup. While I think that your tow vehicle is short on wheelbase and probably torque, even with a high guesstimate of option weight of 480 lbs, your dry weight is only going to be in the 3600 lb ballpark. You've still got almost 900 lbs of leeway. I wouldn't bat an eyelash at loading the trailer with food and clothes for a weekend or, if you pack light on the canned goods, a week's worth of food, you would still be comfortably within your limits. Nothing like hot dogs over an open fire followed by a healthy dose of s'mores! Load up, take the boy out and have some fun!

[BigAk]

webslave,

I will abide by your advise and valuable information. I'm new to this and I appreciate any help and guidence from an experienced person like yourself.

Thank you again! Take care. See you around...
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[gmw photographics]

I rolled mine (189FDS) over the scales today and it's 3600 lbs. I have removed the front bunkbed, which I would estimate to be about 100 lbs. The propane tanks are full, but the water and waste tanks are empty. I had a light load of minimal things for an overnight camp, like maybe 100 to 150 lbs of things.
The factory stated dry weight is either 3040 or 3070 lbs, I can't remember which.

Here's a pic of it in camp last night.

[BigAk]

Originally Posted by gmw photographics

Here's a pic of it in camp last night.

Good looking camper gmw... What do you tow with?
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[gmw photographics]

Thanks for the kind words. I'm towing with a '06 Nissan Frontier crew cab 4x4. 4.0 V-6 ( 265hp, 285 lb-ft ), six speed manual. This truck has a factory claimed tow rating of 6350 lbs. I would say that would be asking a bit much of it though.

However, as a side comment, I sometimes pull a two horse trailer with it, and it is at times right around 5,000 lbs, and the truck does okay with it.

For the camper ( I just bought this camper in November ) I am using a BlueOx WD hitch, which seems to work well. To be honest, I have never pulled with a WD hitch before though, so I really don't have anything to compare it to as far as other WD hitches. It definitely pulls better with the WD hitch than it does just on the ball though ! I pulled it 650 miles home from the dealer on the ball, and it for sure moved around a bit in crosswinds and when 18 wheelers would come past me.

I know this is more than you asked, but so far it is getting between 11.5 and 13.5 mpg, pulling at 55mph in fifth gear. I don't pull in sixth gear.

[Niner]

I am in the process of buying a 2012 Touareg TDI with the 3 liter motor, 225 HP and 403 ft lbs of torque. Trailer package limits it to 7700 pounds of towing capacity and 770 lbs of tongue weight.

I would like to tow a 189 FDS with it. The 185 FDS weighs, in bone stock form, around 3100 lbs, and has a tongue weight of around 400. Add the "Fun X" package, with all the electric doo dads, and what does it bring the new weight up to, flat out empty with no clothing, no water, no LPG?

I will be traveling single, and load inside the Touareg will be kept light, most of the weight I will add to the trailer to let the wheels and axle on the trailer take the brunt off the axles on the vehicle, as VW does not allow load levelers.

Also, any other tricks on how to get the new LED brake and running lights to play nice with the Electronic Control Module on the Touareg? I have VCDS software and ability to long code the ECM, but I don't have the Touareg yet to attempt fiddling with it.

Also, if I keep speeds around 60 MPH, the vehicle is rated at 28 MPG highway, what should I reasonably expect for MPG with the 189 FDS while towing at slower speeds?