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Old 07-30-2016, 12:16 PM   #41
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In my opinion, there are many that cannot afford and/or do not want to spend $75,000 - $100,000 plus for a camper. Therefore there is a market for a much lower priced unit.

No different than those who cannot afford and/or do not want to spend $250,000 - $4 million for a home. Therefore there is a market for a much lower priced home.

In either instance (or many others) the lower priced products will utilize materials and construction quality not found in higher priced products.

Pick any product you want and you will find a market for the lowest priced product....made in the USA or a foreign country.

That is how I see it.
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Old 07-30-2016, 02:48 PM   #42
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Ironic analogy as I am a home builder. But that is Not the case here. Cruiser chose to not install the refrigerator per Dometics specifications. This is not a case of materials or equipment, this is not a case of additional labor, The installation they chose , to not follow the required venting clearances, has nothing to do with cost. There is plenty of room in the slideout to move to refrigerator and vents to the proper specs. No additional materials, no material substitutions, All they had to do was make one drawer shorter and read the installation manual.
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Old 07-30-2016, 04:32 PM   #43
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So many complaints from owners who have refrigerators in slide outs. If all of these units have the same problem for the same reason then normally there would be a recall of the product to fix the issue. But many seem to have tried to fix the issue themselves either because they got no where dealing withe the dealer, the company or their trailer was out of warranty or they bought it used and discovered the problem. Because they didn't pay high dollar is no excuse for having a shoddy product. I would be pretty disgusted too. No one should have to take the repairs on them self. If it was a car they would have a lemon law most likely, but no such thing with RVs. This problem is not because they paid too little $$ out. It is solely the fault of the RV brand.
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:01 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Travels with Yoly View Post
...so none of that "mid-west culture of building crap".
.
Hey, Neil, you might need to re-think your "mid-west crap" theory?
Sounds pervasive throughout the country (and in my experience - in MANY industries).

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Old 08-02-2016, 07:08 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by michellep View Post
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Hey, Neil, you might need to re-think your "mid-west crap" theory?
Sounds pervasive throughout the country (and in my experience - in MANY industries).

RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Travel Trailers: Pacific Coachworks - Warning to those looking...

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Sadly, I've read similar stories about RV's, travel trailers, automobiles, pickups, appliances, and many other 'man made' product.

The crux of the problem is companies are forced to hire "warm bodies" to fill positions these days because finding a dedicated, intelligent worker is near impossible. Don't believe it? Ask ANY employer in any industry!
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Old 08-02-2016, 09:18 AM   #46
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Sadly, I've read similar stories about RV's, travel trailers, automobiles, pickups, appliances, and many other 'man made' product.

The crux of the problem is companies are forced to hire "warm bodies" to fill positions these days because finding a dedicated, intelligent worker is near impossible. Don't believe it? Ask ANY employer in any industry!
I work for a homebuilder here in Washington state. There is a real shortage of qualified labor, but rather than just hiring "warm bodies" The owners of our company made a choice to limit sales. They chose to maintain our quality standards rather than chase profits. As a result we are the most coveted production builder in the State. We have a backlog of future orders and we are also seeing that talented labor is now seeking us and now we can grow again maintaining our ethics. It's all about the ethics that guide your choices.
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Old 08-02-2016, 09:25 AM   #47
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I don't think we can blame the workforce solely. The companies design the products and inspect the work (supposedly). The rat's nest of wires and tubing going all over everywhere is of the design. A shoddy design. Add to that the hurried assembly line nature of the RV build and you get a shoddy product. You can view a Cruiser RV video on YouTube that shows this. I provided a link in a previous post. If you want to blame the Midwest workers then you can condemn a whole lot of travel trailer brands. But yes, I agree pride in workmanship is also a thing of the past.
https://rv-pro.com/news/history-how-...ame-rv-capital
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:12 AM   #48
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Sounds like the owners of the company you work for got it right in order to maintain/enhance their reputation and quality of production. Good for them!
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:52 PM   #49
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I have noticed that sometimes smaller family owned businesses seem to have more pride in the products that bear their name.
Larger, sometimes publicly traded, manufacturers base their success more on short term profits or quarterly gains.
It seems that the greater the distance between management and customer the greater the degree of customer dissatisfaction.
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:14 PM   #50
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There is some truth that. Publicly traded companies are often spit between two masters. Serve the consumer in their best interest, the stock holders stock value suffers. Serve the stock holders to maximize their margins and the consumer can suffer.

The home builder I work for did start as a family business but we have grown to sell more homes (in our area) than DR Horton, Lenar, and all the rest. We are on track to build about 400 homes just in two counties with projected annual sales of around 165 million. No longer a small family business.

The growth was not the result of marketing, stratigies and explosive growth. I came (with time) from creating a disirable product with unparalleled service and support.

Which leads me back to my original discuss with Cruiser RV, They have a great design, but exiquited poorly. - with no support or accountability. Not only will I never do business with them again, I will do everything I can to tell everyone I meet about it.

They made a choice, I could be raving and not ranting.
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Old 08-15-2016, 12:31 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michellep View Post
.
Hey, Neil, you might need to re-think your "mid-west crap" theory?
Sounds pervasive throughout the country (and in my experience - in MANY industries).

RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Travel Trailers: Pacific Coachworks - Warning to those looking...

This poor guy. Ugh.
Hey Michelle,

I've always believed the poor quality and lack of QC to be industry wide. And it's not just the inexpensive units at the bottom of the quality chain. I see YouTube videos of $300,000 motorcoaches with awnings that don't retract, drawers that don't close & latch and equipment not connected correctly. However, my comments about the mid-west as a concentration point due to the more transient work force is still valid I believe. I read the link you provided and I just feel so sorry for that guy having been there myself, only not as bad. At least I was able to sell my 4 month old Fun Finder at a loss of only $7,000. It's called "cutting your losses"

I also agree with Agnitio about the details of the root cause. Units are just built by workers who not only don't give a damn, but also by some who seem to enjoy causing people grief. My second trailer had a factory installed water heater with all the electrical connections taped in a coil laying on the floor behind the tank which required a hole to be cut in the inside wall to access the wires for proper connection. People need to stop defending the manufacturers, including Cruiser RV and shed more light on the pitfalls of ownership.

We have finally found our last camper. It is a Canadian owned company built in Yakima WA. As I go through it testing everything, checking things over and making our little personal touches, I am nothing but impressed. On a very hot southern summer day (94 degrees, 87 % humidity) the fridge goes down to 34* and freezer to 0* within 4 hours of turning it on (either 110 or gas). No leaks of any kind. Our only issue was with the screen door which didn't align correctly nor latch as it should. I called my dealer and told him of the issue. He told me that he'd check on it and give me a call back. An hour later the marketing manager at Adventurer called me and gave me detailed instructions on how to align the door myself (apparently, it had been damaged in shipment). I followed his instructions and in less than 5 minutes, the door fit perfectly and works perfectly.

If you haven't already seen it .....





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Old 08-15-2016, 02:32 PM   #52
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Maybe you gripe about the quality of campers built in the Midwest because over 80% of campers are built in the Midwest. Perhaps the Company told the worker that they should install the water heater that way. If not, don't they have inspectors?
You say you have found your "last" camper. But how many did you say you have been through in the last few years? You Funfinder is long gone and yet you remember it.
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Old 08-15-2016, 02:32 PM   #53
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Maybe you gripe about the quality of campers built in the Midwest because over 80% of campers are built in the Midwest. Perhaps the Company told the worker that they should install the water heater that way. If not, don't they have inspectors?
You say you have found your "last" camper. But how many did you say you have been through in the last few years? You Funfinder is long gone and yet you remember it.
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Old 08-15-2016, 03:09 PM   #54
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Hey Neill, I just watched your vid on the new rig. Looks nice ! But the first thing I gotta say is you're just having too much fun with the drone doing vids
Looks good....you should hire out to the RV dealers. Much better at getting the idea of the RV across to the viewer than most of the lame sales vids out there.
Your new truck looks good too. Love these modern crewcabs with plenty of room inside to keep things like camera gear and such in a safe place.
Have fun with the new camper.
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Old 08-15-2016, 07:01 PM   #55
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Maybe you gripe about the quality of campers built in the Midwest because over 80% of campers are built in the Midwest. Perhaps the Company told the worker that they should install the water heater that way. If not, don't they have inspectors?
You say you have found your "last" camper. But how many did you say you have been through in the last few years? You Funfinder is long gone and yet you remember it.
The fact that 80% of the industry's products come out of the mid-west obviously focuses the stats because of the concentration. But it is also why the work force is (relatively speaking) more transient than other industries. It is so easy for workers to move about from one manufacturer to another there is less incentive to stay at one place, and do a good job. It lessens the brand loyalty of the workers. This isn't something I made up but rather something I read in a trade publication or some other place. It made sense to me and I simply offered it as food for thought. I do have to ask why a company would instruct a worker to install a water heater and not connect it to anything ... what possible benefit could there be ??

The Fun Finder, while "long gone" has not been gone yet even a year. It's true we have gone through several iterations of campers with a variety of configurations .... all to better learn exactly what we need to best suit our travels. I'm not saying that we did it the right way. We made tons of mistakes and wasted tons of money. I refer to our new unit as our "last camper" because we really feel this has been a learning process and we've come to realize that this is the best way for us to travel that suits our needs and requirements. I also feel like it is well made (by comparative standards) and will last with normal use until it's paid off at least. Everyone is different and that's why there are so many choices.



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Old 08-15-2016, 07:25 PM   #56
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Hey Neill, I just watched your vid on the new rig. Looks nice ! But the first thing I gotta say is you're just having too much fun with the drone doing vids
Looks good....you should hire out to the RV dealers. Much better at getting the idea of the RV across to the viewer than most of the lame sales vids out there.
Your new truck looks good too. Love these modern crewcabs with plenty of room inside to keep things like camera gear and such in a safe place.
Have fun with the new camper.
Hey gmw (why do I remember you as George ?)

I can't deny it ... I do like my new flying camera I need to fly it a lot simply to learn how to fly it safer and more precisely for better videography. It's a very sophisticated piece of electronics and capable of doing things I haven't ventured into yet (programmable flight, way-point to way-point flight and "follow me" mode for instance). The more I use it, the more comfortable I become with it and the more features I learn how to use.

If you look at some of the previous videos and read the descriptions they tell a story of trial and error. After traveling for years we had thought that we were done with the large cross country trips and that we would set a new course for shorter trips closer to home. This would allow a decrease in the level of equipment necessary. However, after some discussion and contemplation, we discovered that there was one more jewel we would have to seek before scaling back. Next year we plan on an extensive tour of Canada and a revisit (for the 5th time) to the west coast. In the end, we decided that we definitely wanted a truck camper and moving up to the 3/4 ton was the only way to go. Fully loaded we're still about 1,400 lbs below the GVWR and well below both individual axle ratings. That makes me feel comfortable On a whim I was looking at 3/4 ton trucks and saw a real steal on this one from a local dealer .... we paid less than $30K for it

As for the videos .... our new camper is made by Adventurer LP in Yakima, WA. When I was discussing my screen door issue with the marketing manager I mentioned the video that I had made. He watched several of them and contacted me via email and wants to work a deal where I would do some drone videos of their plant as well as some aerial footage of their units in campgrounds. They also do factory tours and he wants me to make a video of their tour so that they can put it on their web-site so that people could take the "virtual" tour and not have to travel all the way to WA. I'd like to work a deal whereby they can install lots of the options I didn't get in exchange for my work This won't be until next June when we are out that way however.



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Old 08-16-2016, 06:52 AM   #57
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Hi All,

Just returned from my trip to the 76th Annual Sturgis Motorcycle Rally in Sturgis, South Dakota.

My BIL and I loaded our Harley's in my 2012 XT-276 and off we went. We spent 3 days at the rally, saw loads of motorcycles of every style/description, rode thu the Black Hills, lost a few $$ gambling in Deadwood, etc. but had a great time again.

The Fun Finder functioned flawlessly again so am extremely pleased with my investment in the unit.

Best to all.
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:45 PM   #58
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Hi all,
I am not sure if these guys are legit or what, but you might want to research their site... I saw where someone posted the link on another RV/Trailer Forum:
http://www.lemonlawamerica.com/

They posted this on their ABOUT US page:
About Us
Since our debut on the World Wide Web in 2000, LemonLawAmerica.com has been a premier lemon law resource for thousands of consumers with defective cars, trucks, vans, SUV's, motorcycles, boats, RV's, motor homes, computers and other consumer products. Our affiliated attorneys have helped frustrated "lemon" owners receive millions of dollars in refunds, new vehicles, or cash compensation most without charging attorneys' fees, as these are paid for by the manufacturer or defendant if a lemon law claim is successful.

LemonLawAmerica.com has been featured on CNN Headline News, on the USA Today website as a featured "Hot Site", in Forbes magazine and is linked to hundreds of consumer websites as a reference for lemon law information and assistance.


Sorry... Here is the site and thread I found the information regarding LEMON LAW and RV's...
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=18772

Good luck and if you research it, give us some feedback...
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Old 08-16-2016, 06:46 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_C View Post
Hi all,
I am not sure if these guys are legit or what, but you might want to research their site... I saw where someone posted the link on another RV/Trailer Forum:
http://www.lemonlawamerica.com/

They posted this on their ABOUT US page:
About Us
Since our debut on the World Wide Web in 2000, LemonLawAmerica.com has been a premier lemon law resource for thousands of consumers with defective cars, trucks, vans, SUV's, motorcycles, boats, RV's, motor homes, computers and other consumer products. Our affiliated attorneys have helped frustrated "lemon" owners receive millions of dollars in refunds, new vehicles, or cash compensation most without charging attorneys' fees, as these are paid for by the manufacturer or defendant if a lemon law claim is successful.

LemonLawAmerica.com has been featured on CNN Headline News, on the USA Today website as a featured "Hot Site", in Forbes magazine and is linked to hundreds of consumer websites as a reference for lemon law information and assistance.


Sorry... Here is the site and thread I found the information regarding LEMON LAW and RV's...
Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers • View topic - Lemon Law

Good luck and if you research it, give us some feedback...
Worth taking a look. Ill update the tread if I learn anything
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:08 PM   #60
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Wow! this was an eye-opening read! I guess we've just been really lucky with our 2008 189FBR. We've got over 20,000 miles on it without any major problems.

Oh-yeah I forgot, half the brakes weren't actually hooked up - that's kind of a big thing. We found out when we had the bearings greased. But it didn't cause any problems, thank heaven.

Anyway, when I tell people I love my trailer, I always add that they have an amazing design, and lousy execution. 3 of our windows leaked, and there were other minor annoyances. But our refrigerator always works great! (at least it keeps ice cream mostly frozen, which is the important thing LOL) Maybe I should look into that, I haven't ever put a thermometer in it, but it's 100 degrees when we camp sometimes. Thanks for the heads-up on this.

Liz
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