X215 WSK Unloaded Weight

Pcola10k · 08-25-2022, 06:28 AM

Hello, new to RVs, just purchased a 2013 Fun Finder X215 WSK. Trailer looks to be totally stock with no modifications.

With Holding tanks dry, 2 golf cart 6v batteries, propane tanks empty, a 13.5 Dometic AC and just sheets and blanket on the bed I'm getting a weight of 5000 at the CAT scales.
The units sticker says should be 3890, that's 1100 lbs over.

This CAT scale is at a New loves. Weighed my truck with the trailer careful that steer/drive/trailer were all on separate pads, then parked the trailer and weighed just the truck. Subtracted the truck weight from the gross weight of truck and trailer and came up with 5000lbs.

The trailer is in good condition with original under skirting still in place, I've flushed all tanks, everything looks stock. Original roof. No indication of present or past water leaks. It dose have the original outside kitchen with the Black & Decker mini fridge, and a spare tire on the rear bumper.

I'm at a loss to account for this additional weight.

dustyone · 08-25-2022, 10:59 AM

Hello. And I hope you really enjoy your camper. First I hope I can help you with your question The advertised weight of a trailer is often wrong. They come off the line without any batteries. 6 volts weight about 75 lbs each add the propane tanks about 25 lbs each empty fill them the gain 30 lbs each. If you got it with an electric tongue jack add a few more lbs. It will add up quickly. I hope you can see how 5he different numbers come up. I never understood why they did that but that was a d is how they sell them. I have one suggestion for you. If your fresh water tank is between the trailer axles then fill it before you start your trip.

Pcola10k · 08-25-2022, 04:17 PM

Thanks for the reply Dustyone.

Yes I believe the fresh tank is between the axles, black is at rear and grey Infront of axle.

What is the advantage of filling Fresh before trip? I was thinking best to run them all empty.

dustyone · 08-26-2022, 08:16 AM

I have had a couple of different things happen. One time I had brakes go out while towing. Spent the night in garage owners driveway while he fixed truck. And twice I went to two different campgrounds. Their water was out. One was on city water, pipe broke. One where Their water pump burnt out do to a lightning strike. I have two 6 volts like you and can camp for 2 days without any problems even thou both the DW and I need equipment to breath at night. A full tank of water to is a good thing. I also keep at least one of my propane tanks full just in case. Never thought I'd need these things but did. Also full, not partly full helps stability while towing. If weight is centered between axles.

profdant139 · 08-26-2022, 09:49 AM

Welcome to the club, Pcola! I've got nothing to add to what Dusty said, except this: as a newbie, don't be shy about asking questions. Us old timers are just waiting to share our hard-earned wisdom. (In other words, hoping you can learn from my mistakes!)

Enjoy your new trailer!

RipVan · 08-26-2022, 02:11 PM

Ya, a discrepancy of more than 1000 lbs seems wrong. If the batteries, propane tanks and the mini-fridge weren’t included in the “dry weight” the discrepancy would still be more than expected. Since the Vehicle Information Certificate is a Federally required document, I would like to think that the information should be relatively accurate.
I’ve never had the occasion to use a CAT scale and I’m a bit unclear RE: the OP’s description of the weighing process. Where I live, the county has a scale near the highway department’s gravel pit that’s available for public use. The scale’s pad is relatively small, maybe around 25 feet long. Obviously not long enough for most truck and trailer combinations. While I’ve not ever done a “dry weight” check on my trailer (gross weight is more important, as is tongue weight), let me describe my weighing method. First off, I get the weight of my truck as usually driven, i.e. no weight distribution hitch and nothing additional loaded in the bed. Call it Weight 1, the “truck weight”. Then I fetch my trailer. I pull onto the scale pad with only the truck’s wheels on the pad. That will be Weight 2, the “truck plus tongue weight”. I pull forward so that only the wheels of the trailer are on the pad. That will be Weight 3, the gross weight of the trailer minus the tongue weight.
Weight 2 minus Weight 1 = tongue weight. Weight 2 + Weight 3 = Gross trailer weight. In the case of the OP trying to get an accurate “Dry weight”, in addition to making sure anything considered as cargo was removed from the trailer, I would leave as much of the WDH on the truck when determining Weight 1.

Pcola10k · 08-26-2022, 02:55 PM

Thanks for the response. Stability is my main concern. Im new to TT's, while I towed a few dozen from Indiana to Houston back in the Katrina days I was pulling empty 22-30 TT on just a ball hitch with my old Dodge 1 ton Cummings Dually, hardly knew they were back there.

Now my TV is a 2016 Colorado CrewCab with the little Duramax diesel, Rated towing capacity is 7600lbs, so Ive got some room there but real tight on payload for the truck. I had put air bags on it long before I purchased a this travel trailer as I build docks and pull a 22' flatbed with materials and tools, that trailer has always pulled like a dream with just a 2" ball hitch and ebrakes on both axles.

Towing this TT is a bit different, I sure feal it back there with the tanks all empty, when I purchased it the black tank was full, so I attributed the sway to all that weight behind the axles and nothing else in the trailer, a small 12v battery and two empty propane tanks on the tung.

I emptied the Black tank, replaced the 12v with two 6v, replaced the 13.5 AC with a 15K Houghton heat pump on the roof (weight about the same) Replaced the manual tongue jack with a power jack and replaced the fron 24" BAL C stabilizers with 35". ones. Other repairs but nothing that should have changed the weight or its distribution.

Im using a Husky WDH adjusted up the the 4th link, I put HF sway bars on each side of the tongue, 75psi in the air bags, the tongue weight is at 500lbs TT weight 5000lbs, tires are new GY Endurance at 55psi. The TT & TV are level Just had the brakes checked and bearings replaced. Steering axle is about 100 lbs less on the TV then when no trailer attached.

Im good to about 55mph then I start feeling a bit of sway its not bad but pretty constant although not rhythmic side to side, just feeling the TT move the TV around some.

Im thinking I'll need to put more weight on the tongue but as I said before Im almost right at my payload of the TV and with passenger and some gear I wont have any headroom there.

Will adding water to the fresh tank maybe help? Any other observations I should be aware of?

I pulled trailers for yrs, no expert but not a novice. Maybe its just the nature of the beast with TT, maybe is something Ill have to put up with cause my TV is a mid size, maybe I'll have to ignore Sammy Hagger and actually drive < 55mph.

Any thoughtful advice/ observation from those with experience is welcome.

Thanks.

At todays prices of TV and fuel I dont want to swap TV, I get 30mpg+ with this colorado and usually 20+ pulling my flatbeds, driving this TT on I-10 from Panama City Beach to Pensacola 120 miles I averaged 15mpg.

dustyone · 08-26-2022, 05:22 PM

For what I am reading you obviously do have some Towing experience so I would say that you know you really need good LT tires at the proper pressure. I am not familiar with the Colorado but you might want to upgrade the sway bar under it if it has one and if it doesn't you might think about adding an aftermarket. Also I don't need to tell you that you're dragging a very big box side wind headwind even wind from the tail will affect how it goes. So I would suggest well I'm retired and never in a hurry but 55 sounds good. Safe travels glad I was being able to help
Dusty

Pcola10k · 08-26-2022, 06:29 PM

Thanks again Dustone for your helpful reply. I had always used Carlie bias tires on my trailers. When I went looking for this TT I noticed they are now made in China. While I've not owned Chinese on road tires before they sure get a lot of bad press, I have suffered through Chinese lawn tractor tires and never had a set for more than a yr that did not leak. So after reading many good reviews on the Good Year endurance I went with them. I'm not sold on the lower inflation psi, I think my Carlile bias at 80psi may have kept this rig a bit more steady but being that I never had them on this TT it's just a hunch.

I just received a tongue scale I had ordered so I did a little experiment. With all stabilizers retracted I blocked the tounge scale under the coupler, leveled the TT out, tongue weight was 490, then I filled the fresh water tank, now 520lbs, then I filled the black tank, I expected tongue weight to decrease its the black tank is behind the rear axle, it did not my tongue weight actually increased a bit to 550lbs. Each of my tanks has a 36 gal capacity, so about 270 lbs. So filling the black tank actually ballanced out with 11% of the additional weight going on to the tongue. I did not calculate with just the black tank full.

So I guess my payload on the TV should be ok running with the FW tank full, will see if it steadies the ride.

Thanks again.

Pcola10k · 08-26-2022, 06:40 PM

Thanks for the warm welcome Profdant139

dustyone · 08-26-2022, 10:25 PM

Okay I think I may have confused you a little bit! The tires I were referring to were on your truck not your camper. Also the sway bar would be under your truck. As far as Carlisle tires I have run them on my camper for many years they run just fine, secondly you always want to make sure your black tank is empty that is your waste tank you really want it empty when you are traveling not full.

dustyone · 08-26-2022, 10:30 PM

First I think I may have confused you a little bit, excuse me the tires I were referring to where the tires on your truck or your tow vehicle they should be a good LT type Tire also the sway bar that I was talking about is under your truck. As far as tires on your trailer I have been using Carlisle tires for years and I have no issues with them make sure those tires have a marking on them of s t. ST tires have a stiffer sidewall on them they are made specifically for trailers. Your your truck tires should have an LT rating on them. Sorry for the mix-up, Dusty

RipVan · 08-27-2022, 11:48 AM

As the saying goes, “Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement”! A couple of things don’t sound right to me. Air bags don’t add payload capacity to a vehicle. They may reduce “squatting” but they don’t change the manufacturer’s “Payload Capacity”. I’m guessing that the OP’s TT weight (even dry) is enough that adding 200-300 lbs of water over the axles would not do much to improve handling especially when using a WDH and two anti-sway devices (overkill IMHO) IF the recommended tongue weight (10-15% of the trailer’s actual weight) is being utilized. For sure unnecessary weight DOES affect fuel economy! Now that the OP has a tongue weight scale, loading the TT to get the proper tongue weight will be easier but to do so implies knowing the actual loaded weight of the TT. I agree that towing a TT with a full black water holding tank is less than optimal and would definitely change the tongue weight (should now be less) from when the trip started. Why that didn’t occur in the OP’s situation means that extra “Stuff” is now in front of the axles that wasn’t there before. Something isn’t right.

Pcola10k · 08-27-2022, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustyone

First I think I may have confused you a little bit, excuse me the tires I were referring to where the tires on your truck or your tow vehicle they should be a good LT type Tire also the sway bar that I was talking about is under your truck. As far as tires on your trailer I have been using Carlisle tires for years and I have no issues with them make sure those tires have a marking on them of s t. ST tires have a stiffer sidewall on them they are made specifically for trailers. Your your truck tires should have an LT rating on them. Sorry for the mix-up, Dusty

Thanks again for your comments Dustyone. I thought you could be talking about using LT tires on the trailer, seems many do but I have always used ST trailer tires these GY Endurance are D rated ST tires. My TV tires are LT tires. Would have stayed with Carlisle had I not noticed they are now manufactured in China, all my previous Carlisle tires were made in the USA, seems like that is a recent change, Ive never run Chinese tires on the road but have read alot of bad press on ones made over there. Chinese tractor tires I've previously had were less than satisfactory too. I wait to see the experience's of others with China Carlisle's.

As for the sway bar, I figured you were talking about the trucks rear sway bar. This Colorado has the electronic anti sway system like many of the new trucks have along with OEM brake controller and an exhaust brake, When I purchased it it was the best factory equipped mid size PU I found available for towing. Im not aware of sway bar modifications being a popular option on these trucks, might be due to that electronic system.

Pcola10k · 08-27-2022, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RipVan

As the saying goes, “Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement”! A couple of things don’t sound right to me. Air bags don’t add payload capacity to a vehicle. They may reduce “squatting” but they don’t change the manufacturer’s “Payload Capacity”. I’m guessing that the OP’s TT weight (even dry) is enough that adding 200-300 lbs of water over the axles would not do much to improve handling especially when using a WDH and two anti-sway devices (overkill IMHO) IF the recommended tongue weight (10-15% of the trailer’s actual weight) is being utilized. For sure unnecessary weight DOES affect fuel economy! Now that the OP has a tongue weight scale, loading the TT to get the proper tongue weight will be easier but to do so implies knowing the actual loaded weight of the TT. I agree that towing a TT with a full black water holding tank is less than optimal and would definitely change the tongue weight (should now be less) from when the trip started. Why that didn’t occur in the OP’s situation means that extra “Stuff” is now in front of the axles that wasn’t there before. Something isn’t right.

Hi RipVan, thanks for your comments here. I'm aware that air bags dont add payload, I added the air bags to level out my flatbed when towing it empty. While loading that flatbed to get adequate tongue weight was always easy to do just by eye, when it was empty it bounced around a bit more than I liked ( its an alum frame trailer so lighter than most ). The Air Bags let me fine tune it to pull better when empty.

I've just purchased this TT, its in good condition but had been sitting for several years, so I've not been pulling it much except for the 120 miles home and maybe 5 test runs down 1-10 10 or 15 miles, stopping to adjust the WDH chain tension and the sway control. Ive never used a WDH or sway control bars before so its a learning experience for me.

My concerns are when I was looking for a TT I was conscious of the weight, it was part of the decision to purchase this particular unit, @ a rated dry weight of 3890 all the numbers should have given me plenty of head room. So when I got around to weighing it empty at the cat scales I was surprised to find it weigh in at 5000 lbs. 1110 over what I though it would be.

That brings my tongue weight target to 700lbs dry

So with my new tongue scale and the Cat Scale readings I can get pretty close on figuring out the trailer and the tongue weight adding a full FW tank, I had feared my tongue weight would increase more than it did when filling the FW tank. I'll take it out on the road with a full tank and see if that helps. Right now I'm getting only about 10% on the tongue, with or with out the FW tank being full. When I pack the TT I will try and get close t 14%. Filling one of the 40lb propane tanks should help that.

The CAT scales are close to me so I'll do a dry run and see is I cant get it all shook out.

RipVan · 08-28-2022, 12:48 PM

The 1100 lb discrepancy is still a puzzler unless the batteries, filled propane tanks and appliances in the outdoor kitchen are considered cargo? Another puzzler is feeling the need to fill the FW tank? Keeping the tongue weight between 10-15% is what is most important (IMHO) for safe handling. Making the trailer heavier makes it necessary to increase tongue weight which cuts into your allotted Payload capacity and definitely reduces fuel economy. Unless you’re planning on “boondocking” or camping where a FW source is iffy, I’d say roll with the FW tank empty.
RE: the listed “dry weight”, it’s a useless value. No one ever goes camping with an empty trailer. The number on the specification certificate to be most concerned with is the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Registered) which is the max allowable weight of the trailer and its cargo. So, load your trailer with all of the stuff that you’d normally go camping with. Take it to the scale and weigh it unhitched from your truck to get its actual weight. Go back home and use your tongue scale to move cargo around in order to balance the load to achieve your desired 14% tongue weight. Of course, if the actual weight exceeds the listed GVWR, jettison some cargo.

NorthPuffin · 09-04-2022, 12:49 PM

I'm not going to weigh in (heh) on the loaded weight of the TT. That's been covered pretty well but we haven't looked at the TV front axle weight yet. Pcola mentioned that the TT unloads the front axle by 100 lbs which may be enough to make the truck a little squirrely.

A good experiment to try would be to crank up the WDH a bit to get some more weight transferred up front on the TV (you have the advantage of the air bags to get back to level once you've done that).

RipVan · 09-05-2022, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthPuffin

I'm not going to weigh in (heh) on the loaded weight of the TT. That's been covered pretty well but we haven't looked at the TV front axle weight yet. Pcola mentioned that the TT unloads the front axle by 100 lbs which may be enough to make the truck a little squirrely.

A good experiment to try would be to crank up the WDH a bit to get some more weight transferred up front on the TV (you have the advantage of the air bags to get back to level once you've done that).

I agree! If the front axle of the truck is being “unweighted”, IMO, the WDH isn’t properly adjusted. Perhaps adding the airbags to the rear suspension has disturbed the “engineer designed” balance between the front and rear suspensions. The unweighting of 100 lbs might result in an imperceptible “micro-squat” but could still affect handling. The added air bags may be “masking” that squat.