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Old 06-29-2011, 01:13 PM   #1
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Default I'm Calling Out YOU Saltynuts & McQz

Its just a Question When running on shore power 30Amps Elc Plug in , Can you guys use your AC & Microwave at the same time with out triping a braker ? On my Crapper I mean Camper It tripes both AC & Microwave ?
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:01 PM   #2
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Never had it hooked up to 30 amp service yet. When at home its hooked up to a 15 amp breaker. Can you not use both? You should be able to. Salty
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:42 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltynuts
Never had it hooked up to 30 amp service yet. When at home its hooked up to a 15 amp breaker. Can you not use both? You should be able to. Salty
I Can't use both ! This Camper is a Crock of S--T , Let me know Salty when you try it with 30 AMPS . I Think maybe FF new about this because under the Braker switch its missing a nockout on the pannel? I don't know why ? It looks like a Braker was added then tacken back out ? I don't know yet , But I will get to the bottom if it. O-BY-THE-WAY Try adding some Pepper on them NUTS Thanks Salty
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:59 AM   #4
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Default logically, no

you have a 13500 btu AC on the roof. it will draw 20 amps at start up (probably more for a second or two, when the compressor cycles on) and then level off a bit lower. The microwave, rated at 900 watts cooking power, requires 1300-1400 watts to run the transformer, fan and control circuits to the the 900 watts of output. 1300/120v = ~11amps. 20 + 11 = 31 amps. Think about a bit of drop in the wiring and you are well past your limits on the entire circuit.

sorry to hear about your issues. I have a 2010 FDS and it is well built. A few changes required to make it the way I want it, but the build quality is quite good. Checked all the outside a few days ago and everything is sealed with silicone, putty and roof sealer.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:19 AM   #5
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Default Re: logically, no

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you have a 13500 btu AC on the roof. it will draw 20 amps at start up (probably more for a second or two, when the compressor cycles on) and then level off a bit lower. The microwave, rated at 900 watts cooking power, requires 1300-1400 watts to run the transformer, fan and control circuits to the the 900 watts of output. 1300/120v = ~11amps. 20 + 11 = 31 amps. Think about a bit of drop in the wiring and you are well past your limits on the entire circuit.

sorry to hear about your issues. I have a 2010 FDS and it is well built. A few changes required to make it the way I want it, but the build quality is quite good. Checked all the outside a few days ago and everything is sealed with silicone, putty and roof sealer.
Beleve it or not it trips both brakers AC & Microwave at the same time , Now heres the strange part , The AC was allready on & the Compressor was running , I thought the same thing( Start Up Peak Amps) & when the Microwave is turned on It runs about 15 or so sec before it tripes both brakers ? Now , I could be wrong but would it Not trip the 30 Amp braker if it were useing 31 AMPS ?
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:30 PM   #6
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You either have a wiring problem or both breakers are joined with a pin. Make sure there is no pin joining the breakers. If that is not it then you have a wiring issue. Time to start unhooking things and see how they connected them.

If the breakers are Square D then they most likley will not be able to hook them together. If you have access to a clamp on meter then you could try to measure the amperage on the breakers. All breakers are designed to trip at 80% of full load current (FLC). So the max you will be able to draw for a continuous period is 13 amps on a 15 amp breaker. The other thing to remember when plugging in your trailer is use the right extension cord. A small extension cord will cause the breaker to trip (although that is usually the sourcing breaker not the sub).

Contact the manufacturer to get the wiring diagrams then you can trace it to make sure they did it correctly.

Good luck,
Walter
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Old 07-14-2011, 08:38 AM   #7
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Default (

Quote:
Originally Posted by gator
You either have a wiring problem or both breakers are joined with a pin. Make sure there is no pin joining the breakers. If that is not it then you have a wiring issue. Time to start unhooking things and see how they connected them.

If the breakers are Square D then they most likley will not be able to hook them together. If you have access to a clamp on meter then you could try to measure the amperage on the breakers. All breakers are designed to trip at 80% of full load current (FLC). So the max you will be able to draw for a continuous period is 13 amps on a 15 amp breaker. The other thing to remember when plugging in your trailer is use the right extension cord. A small extension cord will cause the breaker to trip (although that is usually the sourcing breaker not the sub).

Contact the manufacturer to get the wiring diagrams then you can trace it to make sure they did it correctly.

Good luck,
Walter
Not Joined togather and thats about the only thing I like about this Camper is the Square D Box , When I built my house I put in Sq D Elc panel A-OK Elc Panels & I agree I got a Wireing Problem to, Just one more Problem to add to the mix O-BY-THE-WAY Im still wating on the Owners manuel and the rest of papers , Its been about a Month
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:11 PM   #8
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Default Breakers

Breakers don't trip immediately as you run excess current through them. They are rated to go after a certain time with a certain excess current. Many are rated to manage 200% of their capacity for 10 seconds before tripping.

http://s.pangonilo.com/index.php/200...made-easy.html
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:29 PM   #9
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I would certainly hope that they don't trip immediately. You would never be able to plug in anything that is non resistive. Although you will find that the Square D breaker is the fastest tripping breaker on the market. Nothing protects your home like a Square D breaker. That's why they cost more than the rest.

I used to have a demo kit to show customers what the difference is between the Square D and the rest. We would plug in a paper clip into an outlet and see how fast the breakers reacted. Every other brand the paper clip went red hot and caught on fire and the breaker still wouldn't trip. Not with Square D you could hold it in your hand and plug in live (although don't try this at home).

Cheers,
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:29 PM   #10
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Default breakers popping out

We bought a voltage meter that plugs into the AC wall outlet. I think it cost around $10 or a little more. I ran a #12 extension chord to the camper, and was really surprised how much the voltage dropped when running just turning on the microwave, let alone using the air conditioner at the same time.
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Old 07-16-2011, 08:10 PM   #11
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[quote="gator"]I would certainly hope that they don't trip immediately. You would never be able to plug in anything that is non resistive. Although you will find that the Square D breaker is the fastest tripping breaker on the market. Nothing protects your home like a Square D breaker. That's why they cost more than the rest.

I used to have a demo kit to show customers what the difference is between the Square D and the rest. We would plug in a paper clip into an outlet and see how fast the breakers reacted. Every other brand the paper clip went red hot and caught on fire and the breaker still wouldn't trip. Not with Square D you could hold it in your hand and plug in live (although don't try this at home).
Yes I agree Square D is the way to go for a little more $$ , When I built my house I allso put in all 20 AMP outlits & 12 Ga wire that made the $$$ go up but I think its worth it , I did not know that about the speed time of the Breakers , What hold on ! Im going to try the paper clip thing , And here goes d--m outch s--t d--met p--s ZZZZAAA ZAZZ # *
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:31 AM   #12
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Default 2000si

I just bought a Yamaha inverter generator. I tried to run just my microwave on it and it keeps triping the breaker on the generator. A 2000si puts out 1600 runing watts of power. Should this be enough to run the microave on its own? Thanks for any input.
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:05 AM   #13
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Microwave ovens are notoriously mislabeled...well, not really "mislabeled", but, not quite honest in their power consumption ratings.

A microwave rated at 1,000 watts is actually rated at 1,000 cooking watts. The true power consumption in order to produce that 1,000 watt cooking power can be from 1,500 to 1,750 watts of draw from the power grid (either line voltage or from a generator). A 1,000 watt convection microwave can draw up to 2,400 watts of input power. A "dirty" microwave (made with cheaper, less energy efficient components) can draw even more. Next to your air conditioner the power consumption of these "cooking wonders" is awesome, it will draw nearly the same, maybe even more than your air conditioner, if the air conditioner is high efficiency and the microwave is of the lower efficiency design.

My guess is that the microwave is of the lower efficiency type (they don't spend really big bucks on the appliances in any RV) and you are drawing well over the output of your generator on start up.



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Old 07-19-2011, 04:51 AM   #14
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I never had a problem on 30 amp service running the A/C and micro at the same time (I almost always run the A/C on low fan.)

If i have my camper hooked up to a house plug without a ext cord I can run the A/C on low fan by itself without problems.(20 amps)
When hooked up to a 100 ext cord the breaker goes in a couple minutes.
It can run the fan without A/C
(the campers stored about 100 feet from my house.)
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:46 AM   #15
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On a 30 Amp service with the proper extension cord you will have 30 Amps and most likely the required 110V. When plugging in at home you are already down to a 20 amp service. Then you plug in your 100ft extension cord and if it is a heavy duty one you should still have 110 Volts. If however you use a smaller extension cord you will not have the 110 Volts. You are already down to below 100 maybe even as low as 80Volts due to the resistance of the cord. The load will always draw the same, but as soon as you drop the voltage your current has to increase (Power[watts]=Voltage[E] x Current[I]). So now your are drawing above the 80% of Full Load Current at which the breaker is designed to trip (in this case 20 x 0.8=16 amps). After a few minutes the breaker does what it was designed to do.

So lets look at this another way: if you only have 16 amps available to you and your voltage is now down to 80 you only have 1280 Watts of power availble. If your voltage is at 100 volts then you will have 1600 watts. The most you will ever have availble in the best conditions is 1760 watts. Thats a far cry from the 2640 watts you get with the 30 amp service. The above calculations assume a purely resistive load which an AC is not. It is inductive which means that your power factor is not 1 (current and voltage are in unison), but probably around 0.8 or 0.9 (current is lagging the voltage due to the inductance). So your overall load is actually higher than with a resistive load. So in actuallity you are drawing more current than you think.
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Old 07-20-2011, 06:08 AM   #16
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Funny thing
last year I know I ran the A/C on low fan with the Heavy duty 100 foot ext cord and it didnt pop the breaker ?

but its been popping when I try it now.
I found that my Lcd tv and cable box are on the same breaker and there usually on.

I also found out that 2 cable boxes use as much electricity as a standard new refridgerator ?
I think thats my problem.

I only need the A/C at home when its a hot day and Im cleaning it out or doing a small project.Its only on for a short time.
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:46 AM   #17
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It may be possible that this year (particularly right now) that you are not getting a 110 volts supplied to your house. The east, along with most of the Midwest, is going through an unusually hot period. The electric companies are struggling to provide a constant 110 volts to all of their customers. As the voltage falls, so too, does the ability to provide adequate current. Think of voltage as water pressure and current as the volume of water. As the pressure falls, so too, does the volume (current). It may be that last year, voltage (hence current) was adequate to supply enough current via a 100' extension cord while this year (at this abnormally hot period) the voltage is not such that it can overcome the loss inherent in a 100' extension cord. Unless your extension cord is 10 gauge or 12 gauge, the likelihood of inadequate supply with a voltage input of ~105 volts, while adequate (barely) for your home, when passed through a 100' extension cord, becomes less and not enough to power your air conditioner. The power companies call them "brown outs" and they aren't too uncommon on the east coast during high heat periods when more people are staying inside with air conditioning running along with the "toys" that they are using because they are inside, hiding from the heat...



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Old 07-21-2011, 10:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webslave
Microwave ovens are notoriously mislabeled...well, not really "mislabeled", but, not quite honest in their power consumption ratings.

A microwave rated at 1,000 watts is actually rated at 1,000 cooking watts. The true power consumption in order to produce that 1,000 watt cooking power can be from 1,500 to 1,750 watts of draw from the power grid (either line voltage or from a generator). A 1,000 watt convection microwave can draw up to 2,400 watts of input power. A "dirty" microwave (made with cheaper, less energy efficient components) can draw even more. Next to your air conditioner the power consumption of these "cooking wonders" is awesome, it will draw nearly the same, maybe even more than your air conditioner, if the air conditioner is high efficiency and the microwave is of the lower efficiency design.

My guess is that the microwave is of the lower efficiency type (they don't spend really big bucks on the appliances in any RV) and you are drawing well over the output of your generator on start up.
I called a Camper place & talked with the service guy , He told me that at Camp sites they have a lot of problems with Volts droping up and down and it may be the Camp site & not my Camper , He allso told me that YES you should be able to use your AC & Microwave at the same time with your 30 AMP panel. O-BY-THE-WAY I never had it hook-up to a generator yet , this happened at a Campsite that we took the Camper to To see if everything was working , If Failed most of the test
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:16 AM   #19
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Well, my owner's manual advises not to run the AC and MV at the same time.
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Old 08-31-2011, 06:46 PM   #20
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No mention in my owner's manual like that, but, the stock system should be able to handle any and all "regularly installed" items in the trailer on the installed power distribution center. My trailer will run the AC, microwave, lights, television and the LP leak detector simultaneously without tripping breakers, either on the distribution panel or the campground's pedestal. It will not, however, run all of that plus a resistance heater (either hair dryer or floor heater) or an electric griddle, etc. Those are "add ons" that are not computed in the trailer's maximum load when calculating whether it should be wired 30 amp or 50 amp service. All things being equal, your system should be able to handle the factory installed appliances simultaneously if the campground's service is up to the task. Campground voltage and the concurrent ability to supply adequate amperage is shaky at best; many times, particularly in the heat we've been having, the campground's voltage will sag (I have a Surge/Sag prevention device to prevent damage to my systems if it gets too high or low) and will give you problems. One thing that can help in those instances is to use the 50 amp plug on the pedestal (using a "dogbone" adapter). Those circuits are usually newer...the connections better (less loss to resistance due to age and corrosion) and the circuits are usually seperate from the 30 amp main panel of the campground (wired on their own panel) and don't have as many users loading them down.



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